Rahul's Blog

Random thoughts

MBA after MBBS

Since joining ISB I have received a lot of queries from other doctors and healthcare professionals about healthcare management, the opportunities for doctors after an MBA and getting into a b-school like ISB. The following is an attempt to write about all that I know on each of the above points. I’ll keep adding stuff here in bits and pieces so its not going to be really organised. Leave me a comment if you want more info and I’ll try and write about it.

Disclaimer: This info is not officially from ISB and is what I understand of the admission procedure here. If after reading this, you don’t get in, don’t blame me!!

Q. What are the opportunities available to doctors after an MBA?
A. After an MBA a doctor could get into one of the following industries:

  • Healthcare services delivery (hospitals, hospital chains)
  • Pharmaceutical companies
  • Biotech companies
  • Healthcare consulting
  • NGOs

The functional areas where you could get in are (by industry):

  • Healthcare services delivery (hospitals, hospital chains)
    • Marketing and customer relations
    • Sales
    • Operations – This is where I’ve got a job now with Apollo Hyderabad
    • Business development
  • Pharmaceutical and biotech companies
    • Marketing and customer relations
    • Sales
    • Operations
    • Business development
    • Licensing
    • Discovery project management and evaluation
    • Medico-marketing

Q. How should I prepare to get into a B-school?
A. I’ll concentrate on how to apply for ISB. These points would generally apply to most US & European B-schools. IIMs is a different ball-game and I suggest talking to a current student or alum from an IIM. Send an email to one of the IIM’s alumni association. I had a pleasant experience there and got a lot of responses.

ISB will look at the following parts of your application to decide whether you fit in or not:

  • Essays
  • Work Experience
  • Recommendations
  • GMAT
  • Interview

Your application will most probably be compared with people from similar backgrounds, for e.g. techies will be compared with other techies and doctors with other doctors.

At the outset let me clarify that GMAT is not the only criteria for admission. Each of the above points will be weighted more or less equally, so concentrate on all of them!

Essays
ISB will ask you to write 4-5 essays as part of your application. The topics vary from year to year so take a look at the application and write. Ensure that there are no spelling or grammatical mistakes and above all be honest. An interviewer can usually find out if you are dishonest! I guess it might be OK to discuss the essay with family and friends, but its definitely not OK to get a professional to write it for you. ISB will definitely find out if its written by a pro.

Work Experience
Here you tell ISB about what you’ve done in your career till now. On the basis of this ISB assesses what skills you possess or have acquired. Tell them all that you have done, don’t be shy, but don’t write anything you have not actually done!

Recommendations
ISB requires you to send 2 recos with your application. According to me the best recos would be from your supervisors/bosses at work. It’s a pretty comprehensive document. Make sure the person who writes the reco knows you well. Don’t try and fudge the reco or fill it up for the recommender! Ask the recommender to fill it up, sign it and give it to you in a sealed envelope, with their signature across the seal.

GMAT
Last, but not the least, the GMAT. ISB’s average GMAT score has been rising and our batch (2007 batch) has an average of 706! If you get anything below 650, then you might wanna retake the exam, unless you have something exceptional in your profile, essay or work experience.

While I was preparing for my MBA admission, I was also taking coaching for CAT. This helped me a lot with the Maths. Then, I took a short course at Kaplan for the GMAT, did some questions and full-length tests, and went and gave the exam. Got decent marks and that was the end of it.

You should also read this excellent article – 10 secrets for getting into a top B-school
I agree with all the points in this article, except point 4. I agree with the part about not rushing your application but not with the part about round 1. I think you should apply for round 1 only, but ensure you start your preparation and application process well in time so that you do not rush the application. This will especially be true for MBBS grads since they might take more time preparing for the maths parts of the exams.

Q. Does ISB consider my MBBS internship as work experience?
A. Yes! (IIMs don’t) Not anymore.

Q. Does ISB consider my 3 years of MD/MS as work experience?
A. Gray area-ISB did not consider it till now, but that seems to be changing. Call or write to the admissions office for clarifications.


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50 Comments

  1. Rahul

    April 1, 2008 at 1:24 PM

    Hemona: IT, consulting, banks, i-banking, pharma, real estate, etc. all come to ISB for placements.

    Chinks: You need atleast 2 years of work experience. Your internship will be counted at the time of admission, but most companies will not count it as experience during placements. Even if you get admission to ISB at this point of time (slightly doubtful even if you have a good score and all) you will be in trouble at placement time.

  2. hii rahul can u tell me the maximum limit a doctor CEO can earn?is there any earning limit of doctor CEO’s as comapared to doctors in medical practice

  3. Hi Dr. Rahul,
    I have some clarifications regarding GMAT. Could you suggest me some of the good coaching institutes for GMAT in Bangalore. If you are not aware about this, could you suggest any of your contacts from Bangalore from whom I can get information regarding this.
    One more thing, is it okay to join a CAT coaching and prepare for GMAT on our own with the help of just books. One of my friends suggested me that CAT coaching helps a lot for GMAT as well and whatever is left out can be learnt by our own efforts, is this okay or do we really need to go for a GMAT specific coaching (I am planning to take up GMAT in the next 5 to 6 months, hence I feel coaching is required for me to go on the fast pace…)
    Also could you suggest me some good books for GMAT preparation…?

  4. thanx fr ur valuable suggestion.i too want 2 do my carrier in management nt in mrktng or hr.all career launcher institute r of same repo or of sm specific place.shd i cont my studies of cat n gmat while tkng wrkexp or devote me seperately fr der prep.

  5. hi sir……i am a physiotherapist… completed my intern last month only.Seeing the prospects of physiotherapy in India i have made my mind to shift my field of study to MBA and that too not in hospital or health managemant..so i wanted to know what are the chances of a physio to go into MBA finance or marketting or HR??? will i be accepted???

  6. Rahul

    April 6, 2008 at 10:02 AM

    Dr. Deb: I don’t think there is a limit to earnings on either side. Good doctors, esp. surgeons, can earn quite a lot. Also, you can be a CEO of a small hospital and obviously not earn quite a lot. In either line it all depends on how well you do. I think you need to get out of a fixation for money and figure out what exactly you want to do in life.

    Dr. George: I don’t know of someone who will be able to guide you regarding coaching in Bangalore. Try a site like pagalguy.com for advise on that. You definitely could take coaching for CAT and prepare for GMAT on your own, but remember that the English in GMAT is quite different from CAT. If you are unable to cope up with that on your own you need to take specific GMAT coaching. You definitely need to get the “Official GMAT Guide”. A GMAT prep book from Kaplan or Princeton is necessary too.

    Amol: All CLs should be decent, but the faculty makes a difference. You should contact some students at different CL centres near you and figure out which is better. Also ask for a sample class at the centre. You can continue working while preparing for CAT/GMAT.

    Tim: Yes you will be accepted provided you can show to the prospective employer that you are capable of handling those things. There are lots of docs who have made the shift.

  7. Rahul

    April 6, 2008 at 10:03 AM

    Another article on doctors in the corporate world:
    Doctors taking corporate road in medicine

  8. HI! I m RISHI PATHAK GRADUATE IN B.D.S doing internship from lucknow. i want 2 know abt MBA IN RELATED FIELDS
    :HOSPITAL MANAGEMENT
    :PHAMACEUTICAL INDUSTRY
    :
    HEALTH AND TOURISM MANAGEMENT
    PLE INFORM ME ABT CAREER PROSPECT IN RELATED FIELDS

  9. hii rahul…..thnx for the reply. I saw the article that u gave the link..it is really inspiring…u asked me to come out of the money thing and decide what i want to do in life….well to tell u the truth ….. I dream of really becoming RICH and famous one day and do BUSINESS in a large scale…… I entered into the medical field because i previously thought doctors make most of the money and not due to some passion….Doing practice doesnt attract me much….Thts why i thought of doing MBA (so that i can do business in future and also earn a lot…and that too in less time as compared to after doing MD/MS)….Many people think that im being an escapist by leaving the medical profession…but is the desire to make money through a descent way bad?

  10. Hi,
    I am a BAMS doctor form chandigarh, have 2 yrs experience in health sector, i have taken admission in MBA in dayanand sagar institution, bangalore, I need to knw, what are field , which are best in this management line. Which field- marketing or finance will be best?
    Do you knw abt the placement of this college.
    Do i have to prepare for mathematics or commerce , as my classes will be started in august 2008. Do i need to take any extra coaching for maths in the middle time?
    What are jobs for mba in pharma industries? do they recruit mba as Medical representative?

    Please throw some light.
    Thank you.

  11. Dr Sumit Shrama

    April 10, 2008 at 4:41 PM

    Hi Dr Rahul,

    First of all i want to congratulate you on your success and efforts for helping doctors.
    I am mbbs from rohtak, i have 4 years of work expereince as RMO, Can you suggest – which field has highest package- finance, or marketing, or HR?? Please guide me asap .
    I have taken admission in a college in new delhi, Which field i should opt. plz help me ,

    Thank you.

  12. hi sir….
    thanks a lot for such an informative site…….
    i am doing my final mbbs.in a pvt college in andhra pradesh
    i m in a dilemma abt my future……
    and getting a pg seat in open competition is very tough…….i hope u know abt that…i want u to guide me, wat to do next, after my mbbs….
    how to secure a seat in mba….which colleges would be better for a good future…my percentages are Xth 85%XII 89%mbbsI 67%mbbsII 69%….please advice me…..i have 2 more yrs to complete my mbbs……….please do reply…

  13. hi doc, iam bds dentist from delhi, i want to know which br mba is good, iam thinking of doing in health care. how is the scope. i am in private practice since 4 yrs. if i do it thru distance learning i,e. part-time will it have good job prospects because im not willing to leave my practice right now.
    what r the good univ offering distance mba. is sikkim manipal univ a good option. pl do reply

  14. Hi Dr.Rahul,
    I am a BDS(2004) from Bangalore and an MPH(2007) from UK.I was practicing for a year after BDS and worked under a couple of dentists for a year after MPH.

    Now I am being offered a position as a Manager,Medico-Marketing at a Medical Diagnostic Company.Can you please advise me about the growth in this field.
    Thank you.

  15. hy dr.rahul
    ts ws rly nice to come across ur site m rly appreciate ur efforts f being f so mch hlp tp others.im a 4th yr student of BHMs ,and i am very much keen on duin MBA in hosp mangement..and not realy gong into practice..but as i went through ur answrs to many u have mentioned dat a work experience is required…is it so?also i dont know much about the GMAT etc stuff..can you clarify some to me..it wpuld be of graet help..waiting for your reply..

  16. Dr.misha bansal

    April 17, 2008 at 10:03 AM

    hhi rahul …i am a mbbs studdent doin my intership frm jaipur… am cofused frm which istitute shud i persue my mba frm.my dad has two hospitals under him n i waa help him out since hes alone. plz help m me out.the institute shud preferably in delhi.
    thanking u
    urs truely
    dr.misha bansal

  17. hi rahul, i m gagan here i passed my mbbs in june 2004. i hav one and half years work experience in casualty. now i m pursuing DNB ortho in delhi. i m interested in doing MBA as u know passing DNB is too hard. please advise me n thanks alot for initiating such a wonderful site…. pls do reply
    dr gagan

  18. hello sir,
    regards. sir i wanted to know whether the 3 yrs as pg resident is counted as work ex in ISB?
    2ndly, is 1yr internship(after MBBS) counted as work ex in ISB?
    I know that its not counted in CAT(IIMs) but i dont know about ISB)
    kindly reply……..
    ps: i’ve also posted the same querry in pagalguy.

  19. Rahul

    April 18, 2008 at 10:27 PM

    Rishi: All the opportunities after an MBA in one of these fields is given above in the post.

    Dr. Deb: I am not against making money. I just suggest you go into a field that you like. Any field that you excel in will get you money too.

    Shiv: Marketing or finance needs to be your choice, whichever you like. Both are great. I’m sorry I have no idea about the placement of your college. If you are weak in maths I suggest you review your maths uptil 10th class. I don’t think you will need any coaching. A list of possible jobs is given above in the post.

    Sumit: I’m not sure about HR but the other two have comparable salaries. Finance might pay better when the market is doing good but again no guarantees.

    Sandeep: It is too early to think about MBA right now. You should ideally wait for a few years after MBBS before thinking about this. Atleast wait till you start your internship.

    Dr. Jitender: The healthcare branch will be good, but you can do an MBA in any branch with equally good prospects. A distance MBA will not be as good as a part-time or full-time one.

    Arun Kothur: You need to speak to the guys in the company to figure out your exact role and also your growth prospects within the company. With this kind of exposure you can grow within the marketing space in pharma. However, I am not sure whether your MPH has given you exposure to marketing. If not, that can hamper your growth further.

    Megha: Work ex helps you get the maximum out of your MBA. I recommend you work for some time before doing an MBA. I have put some advice in the post above about GMAT and stuff. If you have any specific questions please let me know.

    Dr. Misha: I have heard that FMS, Delhi has a good healthcare MBA course. Dunno about others.

    Dr. Gagan: I’ll be glad to help you out but I need some specific questions to answer.

    Eric: I’ve replied to your post on pagalguy too. The answer to your question is given in the post above too.

  20. TO DR RAHUL,sir really thak you for this work ur doing ..ur showing good pathway for many juniors who are in confused state after our course…sir i planning to do mba in health administration in uk/usa universites ..tell me some colleges which are offering this course..are ther any difficulties to study abroad for indian students..can i directly apply to the corse…please doctor ..give ur valuable sugesstion

  21. thanx sir, wht r these questions which u want to ask from me… sir plz help me out..
    GAGAN

  22. hi rahul,
    i really feel lucky to come across your blog.
    i finished my internship in dec. 2004 i have been working as a senior research fellow in a WHO funded clinical trial at AIIMS for last less than 2 years,else i have a few months of experience in clinical work. i am seriously interested in doing MBA now,i wanted to know wat waitage my work ex carries in instutes like isb or iim and that i was just doing nothing for almost one yr right after mbbs i am worried that does my cv looks rather depresing.

  23. Dear Rahul
    Ifinished MBBS 15yrs ago was working for someyears, after marriage children profession took back seat now children have grown up thinking about re starting my career, Iam good at public relations can you suggest which branch of MBA and where can Ido and what all the coaching Ineed , Iam now in cochin, kerala.
    thank you.

  24. hey rahul,

    Does a bds + mba have similar prospects like someone wid an mba post mbbs, with mktg,hospital admin, pharma indust.. etc…

    How to get work experience from companies in something like marketing….nobody offers jobs even as a trainee

    have my resume on almost all job portals….

  25. mainly my question was is bds + mba promising enough???…

    After gooing thru your blog it definitely seems so for mbbs + bds

    I am plannin on a DDS/MBA dual degree from US, maybe it would aid in getting into superior postn in healthcare,pharma,dental companies…

    Plsss correct me if i am wrong…

    And yup a note of appreciation….
    Thank you for sharing your experience….very difficult to find a doctor + mba combo…..everybody is mainly contemplating….
    Thanks again..

  26. sir, can u pls tell me which field in MBA is good, in DELHI in which institutes can i join or outside delhi which institutes r prividing correspondence MBA degrees.
    thanx sir

  27. Rahul

    April 22, 2008 at 11:26 PM

    Arjun: I’m sorry I don’t know of specific universities in the US/UK which offer these courses. Apart from the regular difficulties a student would face when studying abroad (expenses, living alone, probably some racism, etc.) i don’t know of any specific difficulties. I guess you can directly apply for the course, though I am sure the US/UK universities would be more strict than the Indian b-schools regarding work experience and all. You will need to check out their eligibility criteria on their websites.

    Dr. Gagan: You need to ask me some specific questions! All fields are good in MBA… you need to decide which one you like best or have an aptitude for. I have heard FMS has a good healthcare program. Otherwise there are a ton of b-schools in Delhi – Fore, Amity, etc. I would not recommend a correspondence course.

    Jessy: If you are good in public relations, a career in customer relationship, service operations or marketing should suit you. You would need to brush up on your maths and english for the entrance tests. I don’t know of any specific b-schools in cochin…

    Dharav: BDS + MBA has good enough prospects. I had a colleague in ISB who was BDS and he’s doing extremely well. What exactly is DDS? If it is a post-graduate degree then it will definitely help get you better jobs.

  28. hi sir…. please reply me…

  29. Hi Rahul,
    I am keen on pursuing MBA after my internship. Wanted your Input on one aspect. I had one paper back in my final year MBBS result, which I cleared in next attempt. Is this going to have negative impact in my selection to IIM’s /ISB?

  30. Rahul

    April 23, 2008 at 5:54 PM

    Dharav: While you can go in for a MBA only I think your job prospects will be better with the DDS. Last year ISB had only doctors with MD/MS as compared to my batch which had mostly MBBS doctors. Their placements were significantly better. One of the reasons obviously was that they had more work experience but the PG degree should have played a significant role.

    You can get placed in other companies too, but probably not get that good a role as you may in a healthcare company.

    Dr Liza: It could. The b-schools will compare you to the rest of the doctors who have applied and unless you bring something significant others might have a better chance. So if your other academics are strong, you have good work experience and extra-curricular activities I would not worry much about it. Just FYI, I had to repeat two papers in my MBBS 😉

  31. DDS is Doctorate of Dental Surgery it is conferred upon in the US just like how after clearing USMLE you guys get MD…We get a DDS but we have to undergo a two year vigourous course and the curricullum is the same as 4th year BDS in India…

    Otherwise may just give GMAT take some work experience and directly do an MBA its a shorter way…

    Hey are the job prospects for me only confined to a Dental industry/companies or will be eligible for other companies besides healthcare??

  32. hey thanks so much Rahul…Appreciate your help…All the best to you!!…

  33. Hi Rahul,
    I am an MBBS doc with 6 years of experience including 1 year of internship, 2 years of practice as a duty medical officer, 2+ years in clinical research as a clinical investigator and 1 year as a general practitioner. My acads are pretty good. I had been following your blog for quite a long time, was encouraged a lot with your answers and my only target was ISB and am about to take GMAT…
    But your last reply to Dharav has given me a jolt, i.e., “Last year ISB had only doctors with MD/MS as compared to my batch which had mostly MBBS doctors.” About a year back i quit a good career in clinical research and had been preparing for GMAT and ISB and now all of a sudden u r telling or I am understanding that its difficult for MBBS docs to get into ISB. Could u please tell me what r my chances looking at my work exp. and with pretty good acads… (assuming I get a GMAT score of 700+).. I am very much confused and lost, shed some light on this aspect at the earliest please….

  34. Thanks for a prompt reply….Appreciate your help.

  35. Rahul

    April 25, 2008 at 12:52 PM

    Dharav & Dr. Liza: Glad I could help!

    Harish: Its not necessary that ISB will not admit doctors with only MBBS! As I’ve said before its the whole package. You have good experience and a good GMAT score should help you out too. Remember ISB will compare you with the other doctors who applied. If you are better than them you get admitted! Give it your best shot… I feel you have good chance.

  36. Thanks a lot for ur earnest and swift reply…. was bothered a lot after ur last response to Dharav, now feel a lot better after u said i have a good chance at ISB with my current status….

    All the best for u too…..

  37. hello sir i m in final yr BVSc(vety grad) n i want to do MBA after my graduation.
    can u plz tel me d MBA courses specifically for vety.grads…?

  38. abhishek bhartia

    April 28, 2008 at 10:17 AM

    I have done MBBS.I am working in UK as a hospital doctor and about to complete my MRCS. I am thinking of doing of doing an MBA course in international healthare management in aberdeen[scotland] and then come to india to work as a hospital manager.
    I would like to know what are the opportunities and career pathway i have to follow after coming to india following my MBA.I would also to know about the average payscale for a hospital manager.
    thanks,

  39. Dear Raghul,

    thank you for the reply, could you please find out the branch you have mentioned is avilable as distant education………………when you have time.best wishes,

    jessy

  40. Hi Rahul,

    I am in process of making my resume. Can you Please share a sample template used by you.

    Thanks in advance.

  41. Hey Dr.Rahul,
    You’re doing a wonderful job in maintaining such an informative blog. I’m and mbbs graduate from Russia with 4 years of experience. By the time I finally decided to pursue an mba, the 2008 ISB application deadline was over. But I have gotten a call from Asian Institute of Management (Manila, Philippines), which has a 16 month general MBA program starting Sep 08. I understand that (AIM) is an institute of repute. I would like to know your opinion of this institute. Further, what pre mba preparation must one do to ensure that one is at least on par with others when one joins an intensive program like the those offered by ISB and AIM. I’m extremely worried that doctors might find themselves like fish out of water from the first day of the MBA program. Please advise…..

  42. hey dr.rahul,

    i am a 6th sem student at AIIMS,new delhi.i have been confused about my future for sumtime……i am not interested in pg anymore,life z pretty hard with low returns……now,i hv kinda made up my mind to prepare for CAT….i jst wanted to know if i shud give it a try during my internship or work for sumtime…..as i dont intend to work after mbbs…..

    How much wil work-ex matter…
    my scores: 10th -93%,10+2 -90.8%
    59% in both 1st and 2nd proff. exams….
    kindly help…

  43. hello DR. RAHUL
    i have done my m.b.b.s. this year & preparing for p.g. exams.please tell me how could one do m.b.a. along with p.g. what are the future prospects for a private m.b.a. instiutes like amity etc.

  44. Dr. Vikrant Rathod

    May 1, 2008 at 1:42 PM

    Hi Rahul, I have been offered a Summer Internship at Jupiter Hospital, thane in Operations. have no Idea on what kind ofproject to pick up. The hospital has left the choice to me. Any suggestions?
    Abt me: Dr. Vikrant Rathod MBBS KEM hospital, MBA Operations Welingkar College, Mumbai.

  45. Hello Everyone,
    I know lot of people are looking forward to leave the medical profession but I want to bring to your highlight the following article. There are also lot others who desperately tried for the medical seat and who wanted to be good doctors.

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/2921262.cms

  46. Dr Balrishna

    May 3, 2008 at 3:19 PM

    Got into IIM Ahmedabad.

  47. Dr Balrishna

    May 3, 2008 at 3:33 PM

    MY ORKUT PROFILE for those who want to contact.. http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=12328608032004524523

  48. hello rahul,…
    same-name-buddy!!!!
    hehehe….
    ….
    well nice tohave found out someone to help guys like me confused between the medical stream n MBA..
    me doing internship presently..
    but i m in two minds whether to continue or switch to MBA.
    m proud to b a doc, but the xcess work n beggar-like-pays r a turn-off…
    at the same time the glitz, glamour n fast money of MBA is beckoning me..
    please guide adequately so that i dont make any decision just in haste…
    plzzz HELP!!!!!!!

  49. Rahul

    May 4, 2008 at 1:17 PM

    Anuj: I’m sorry I don’t know of any MBA courses specifically for vety grads. But why do you need a specific course?

    Abhishek: The healthcare industry is booming right now in India and jobs are plenty. You can choose from various functions (Ops, marketing, ops, finance, etc.) The career path would differ in each of these functions, but a good degree and hard work should take you up the ladder. Pay scale would depend on the hospital and the function, etc. but should be in the range of 6-15 lakhs.

    Jessy: I usually don’t recommend a distance course, but if you really want one I think Manipal University and Symbiosis offer some distance MBA courses.

    Dr. Liza: You should create a simple resume which includes: Education, work experience and extra-curricular activities.

    Dr. Kumar: I’ve heard of AIM but don’t know much details about it. As long as you are decent at basic maths you should not have much problems. Remember, the courses are as alien for the engineers as they are for you!

    Ankit: While the IIMs don’t have any minimum requirement for work experience, some experience should give you an edge over the other applicants. If your only aim is CAT then no experience is necessary.

    Dr. Gurmeet: I’ve not heard of any Indian college/university offering a MD+MBA programme. However, these are popular in the US.

    Dr. Vikrant: You can ask the administrators there if they have any problems they would like to fix or any improvements they want to make. Otherwise you can pick up a project to help them figure out what new things they can do based on customer feedback.

    Ani: Thanks for sharing the link. I think most of us know this stark reality about the Indian healthcare situation. However, the reality also is that most docs are frustated with the meagre pay and ridiculous loads. If you think about it there are really no incentives for doctors to go work in rural areas (no infrastructure, even lower pays, etc.) What really is needed is to figure out ways to provide incentives for people to become doctors and work in underserved areas. (And putting regulations like a one year compulsory rotation in rural areas will never work since people will always prefer incentives over such regulations.)

    Dr. Balrishna: Congrats! I hope you will continue to contribute to the discussion here by sharing your experiences at IIMA and guiding fellow docs who want to follow your path.

    Rahul: There is no glitz and glamour in being an MBA, trust me. Further, there is no fast money either. The pay is definitely better but you still have to work like a dog! So you still need to come up with a better reason than this to switch.

  50. Dear Raghul,
    thank you for the advice Iwill reconsider it.take care.
    regards, jessy

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